Prepared By: Trent J. Keenan, PLS

An abstract of Round Table Tuesdays Episode 12: Employment Expectations: Young Surveyors’ Perspective (Part 1) May 2025

This article is based on the Round Table Tuesday’s discussion featuring surveyors across all experience levels.

Reprinted with permission from the Nevada Association of Land Surveyors, Nevada Traverse, Issue 53.1 www.NvLandSurveyors.org/nevada_traverse.html

There’s a line that shows up all across our profession right now: “Nobody wants to work anymore.” It gets tossed around when a new hire leaves after six months, when a posting sits open for weeks or months, or when a crew leader can’t find a helper who sticks.

But that line doesn’t hold up when you actually listen to young surveyors talk. In Episode 12 of Round Table Tuesdays, a mixed panel of seasoned pros and newer folks in the profession sat down and did exactly that. No sugarcoating. No “kids these days.” Just an honest conversation about what people expect from work now, and what the land surveying profession is doing (or not doing) to keep up.

The tone was respectful, but the message was blunt: young surveyors are not asking for special treatment. They’re asking for a fair deal. Clear training. Safe work. Decent pay. A life outside the job. And a real path forward.

If that sounds obvious, good. The problem is, we don’t always run our companies like that’s true.

What young surveyors are telling employers

• Don’t hire me and then disappear. Train me.
• Show me what “moving up” looks like, and how long it usually takes. Don’t tell me: I have to pay my dues!
• Pay me like you need me, not like I should be grateful you called me back.
• Don’t make me choose between a career and a life.
• Keep me safe. Saving payroll isn’t worth getting someone hurt.
• Treat techs and new hires like professionals, not disposable labor.

The Clock is ticking. Retirements, Knowledge Loss, and the Talent Gap

The roundtable started with a casual chat about scheduling and retirement, but it wasn’t a throwaway topic. That issue sits behind almost everything else we’re dealing with.

Many experienced surveyors are retiring or thinking about it. Some are still teaching seminars now and then, but fewer want to run full-time crews forever.

That matters more than people realize. Surveying relies on judgement that doesn’t live in a textbook: how to read a neighborhood, how to spot a bad deed call, how to know when a monument “fits,” how to explain a decision in a way that holds up in court.

If we don’t intentionally pass that judgement down through mentoring, shadowing, and teaching. It doesn’t just walk out the door. It starts to disappear. Then we act shocked when newer staff don’t “just know” what the old crew chief knew. Surveyors have always learned on crews; knowledge moves person to person.

The problem isn’t “work ethic.” It’s the deal we’re offering.

One of the clearest themes of the roundtable was this: plenty of people want to work, they just don’t want to get stuck. If the job looks like long weeks, vague expectations, low starting pay, and a “figure it out” training plan, they’ll keep looking. That isn’t entitlement. That’s basic self-respect.

Dustin puts words to what a lot of companies feel but don’t always say out loud: it’s hard to attract and keep people when the starting salaries in surveying don’t match the demands of the work. Surveying isn’t an entry-level desk job. It’s early mornings, It’s working in traffic, heat, cold, ticks, thorn bushes, steep slopes, and responsibility that can follow a project for decades.

And the experience gap is real. Many new hires walk in with limited field time. Some are fresh out of school. Some are switching careers. Others are bringing valuable skills from other fields like Amirali, who shared his computer science background, but still needs time to learn the day-to-day reality of boundary work, construction staking, and “why it’s done this way.”

Here’s the hard truth: if we want people to stay, we have to stop treating the early years like a test of survival. A profession that depends on burnout to sort people out will eventually create its own shortage.

School can’t teach the job. Mentorship does.

Jerry made a point that should be printed on every job posting: school is not the finish line. He reminded the group that students may only learn a slice of what they’ll actually need on the job. The bigger skill is learning how to learn, because surveying never stops changing.

That gap between “what school covers” and “what the field demands” is exactly where mentorship is supposed to live. And it’s also where a lot of companies are coming up short.

Several people came back to the same idea: mentorship isn’t a nice bonus. It’s the bridge that keeps a new hire from feeling lost and embarrassed every day. It’s the thing that turns a paycheck into a career.

Connie didn’t pretend it was easy. She pointed out that finding a good mentor can be tough, not everyone who has years in the profession is good at teaching. Her advice was simple: look for companies that don’t leave mentorship to chance. Look for places with a real program and a culture where questions aren’t treated like weakness.

If you’re a manager reading this, here’s a good check: are you proud of how your company trains people? Or do you just hope the new hire “figures it out” before they quit? Precision tools are only half the equation. The other half is training and judgement.

Work-life balance isn’t a perk anymore. It’s the baseline.

A few years ago, “work-life balance” was treated like something you brought up only if you were brave, or if you didn’t want to get hired. After COVID, that changed. People saw what constant work does to families, mental health, and long-term motivation. The roundtable didn’t dance around it: flexible scheduling is now part of the conversation, not a side note.

I shared a real-world example on how we incorporated work-life balance. Our company moved to a 9/80 schedule. Staff work nine-hour days and get every other Friday off, while still keeping the week in a reasonable range. It’s not a magic trick. It’s just a decision that says, “We want you to have a life and still do great work.”

Connie described similar flexibility at Michael Baker in California, remote options for office staff, flexible hours, and field assignments structured so people can work closer to home when possible.

None of this means standards drop. It means leaders are finally admitting what workers already know: if the job eats your whole week, it will eventually eat your motivation too.

If an employer says, “We can’t do any flexibility in surveying,” the roundtable quietly proved that’s not always true. It might be hard. It might take planning. But “hard” is not the same as “impossible.”

Pay, progression, and respect: the three things you can’t dodge.

It’s tempting to talk about recruiting like it’s a marketing problem: better ads, better branding, better social media posts. But the roundtable kept circling back to something more basic: people stay when the math makes sense.

Starting pay matters. So does the pace of raises. So does whether benefits are real or just a paragraph in the handbook. When a new hire is staring at rent, student loans, and a vehicle payment, “you’ll be a crew chief someday” doesn’t pay the bills.

This is where Tim’s point about wage data tools hits hard. Young professionals are comparing industries. They’re comparing what’s asked of them against what they’ll take home. If surveying wants to compete, it must compete with real numbers, not just good intentions.

Progression matters just as much as pay. A vague promise of advancement isn’t a plan. A plan looks like: “Here are the skills we expect in Year 1. Here’s what you’ll learn in Year 2. Here’s what it takes to move to crew chief. Here’s how licensure support works. Here’s what people usually earn at each step.”

And respect is the part people feel first. It shows up in the small things: whether someone takes time to explain a boundary call, whether a mistake becomes a lesson or a public shaming, whether a tech is included in the conversation or treated like a warm body holding a rod. Survey decisions last. So should the career paths that produce good judgement.

Safety is part of retention. One-person crews should scare us.

Surveying is already a risky job in the real world! Roadsides, construction sites, remote corners, unpredictable weather. So when the topic of one-person crews came up, Dustin didn’t mince words. The risk isn’t theoretical. If something goes wrong and you’re alone, help can be minutes away… or even an hour or more away depending on your location.

Cost pressure is real. Everyone feels it. But cutting crew size to the bone is one of those “savings” that can come back as tragedy. And young workers notice. People talk. If a company’s reputation is “they send you out alone,” that becomes a recruiting problem fast.

Safety also ties back to respect. When someone feels protected, they feel valued. When someone feels like a line item, they act like one. And they leave like one!

Job hopping isn’t betrayal. It’s feedback.

Jerry and Jarrod talked about something older generations sometimes struggle with: job hopping is normal now. Not because people don’t care, but because they’ve learned that staying loyal to a bad deal rarely pays off.

A young surveyor who switches companies after a year might not be “ungrateful.” They might be doing the math. If the pay is flat, the training is random, the schedule is chaos, and nobody can explain what’s next, moving on starts to look like the only way forward.

Here’s the part that hits hardest for employers: job hopping is often a mirror. It shows where the gaps are, unclear advancement, weak supervision, or a culture where people feel stuck in the field forever.

If you want people to stay, don’t ask for loyalty first. Earn it. Put the path on paper. Talk about wages like adults. Give feedback often. And don’t punish someone for wanting to grow.

Veterans: a pipeline sitting right in front of us.

Tim brought up a practical solution that deserves more attention: apprenticeship. Not the vague “we’ll teach you as you go” kind, a real program with structure, wages, and a reason for someone to commit.

He also pointed to a group the profession should be chasing harder: military veterans. Not because they’re “cheap labor,” but because they often bring leadership habits, discipline, teamwork, and comfort working outdoors and in tough conditions.

Tim mentioned using federal tools that break down occupations and wage data, the kind of information that helps people map a career. That matters. When a young person is choosing between surveying and another field, they’re not guessing anymore. They’re looking up the numbers. If we don’t like what those numbers say, that’s on us.

This isn’t just recruiting. It’s retention in disguise. It tells someone, “We’re investing in you,” and people tend to stay where they feel invested in.

Profession vs. trade: stop arguing and build a ladder.

The “profession versus trade” discussion can get touchy, and the roundtable didn’t avoid it. Jarrod suggested that entry-level field work could be viewed as a trade, skilled, hands-on, and learned through doing. Connie pushed back, saying surveyors should be treated as professionals at every stage, including technicians.

I chimed in and added perspective from the past. In the 1970s, crews were larger. Work was slower and more physical. The job has always been a blend of sweat and science. And today it includes even more technology.

Jerry offered a clean way to think about it: training and education aren’t the same thing. Technicians and technologists are essential. But the professional side of surveying can also branch into research, teaching, specialization, and leadership, especially as tools evolve with drones and GPS.

Here’s the point: we don’t need to “pick one.” We need a ladder that respects every rung.

A healthy surveying workforce has:

• Entry-level roles that teach real skills without chewing people up.
• Technical paths for people who love the craft and want to master it.
• Professional licensure paths for people who want to carry legal responsibility.
• Clear bridges between the two for anyone who wants to move.

When a company treats technicians like second-class workers, it creates a ceiling, and people don’t stay under ceilings. When a company treats licensure like the only form of success, it misses the fact that strong technicians keep projects alive. Build the ladder. Pay each rung fairly. Then stop acting surprised when people climb it. Surveying keeps changing, and the workforce has to keep up with it.

What employers can do in the next 90 days

If you’re reading this and thinking, “Okay, but what does this look like on Monday morning?” Here are moves you can make without rewriting your whole company manual.

• Put the training plan on paper. One page is better than none. Define what a new hire should learn in their first 30, 60, and 90 days. There is a resource available for this already – Reach out to me and I can provide you with the documentation!
• Assign a real mentor and protect their time. If mentoring is “extra,” it will always lose to production.
• Schedule short check-ins. Ten minutes weekly beats a big annual review that comes too late.
• Show the pay bands. If you don’t want to share them, ask yourself why. People can handle the truth better than mystery.
• Offer one flexibility option, even if it’s small (9/80, staggered start times, occasional remote work for office roles).
• Stop the unsafe shortcuts. If one-person crews are the norm, build a policy that limits where and when they’re used, and why.
• Treat technicians like the backbone they are. Give credit, share context, and stop talking about tech work like it’s “less than.”
• Support licensure and continuing education. Pay for study materials, give study time, and celebrate progress, not just the stamp.
• Recruit like you mean it. Partner with schools, talk to career changers, and tap veterans programs.

None of this is soft. It’s operational.

A company that trains people well, pays them clearly, and protects them will win in a tight labor market. A company that runs on burnout will keep hiring the same position over and over, and calling it “a people problem.”

What young surveyors should ask before they accept an offer.

The roundtable also carried a quiet message for younger folks: you don’t have to gamble your first years on hope. You can ask direct questions, and you should.

• Who will train me day to day? Is that person expecting to mentor, or is it “whenever they have time”
• What does a normal week look like in busy season and slow season
• How do raises work here, time-based, skill-based, performance-based, or “whenever we can”
• What’s the path from where I start to the next step? How long does that usually take
• Do you help with CST/LSIT/PS prep, classes, or continuing education
• What’s your policy on one-person crews and roadside work
• How often do supervisors check in, and how do you handle mistakes
• What keeps people here for five years

If those questions make a company uncomfortable, that tells you something.

And if you’re struggling to find a mentor, take Connie’s advice: keep looking. Be persistent. Good mentors exist, but you usually find them in places that value teaching, not just billing.

Where does this conversation goes next.

Round Table Tuesdays didn’t wrap this up with a neat bow, and that’s the point. This was Part One: the young surveyors’ perspective. The next article coming out in the next edition is set to flip the view and hear the employer side.

The group also pointed to something the profession needs more of: Community. Mentorship doesn’t have to live only inside one company. Programs like Young Surveyors Network chapters, and regional meetups give people a place to ask questions, share job leads, and realize they aren’t the only one figuring it out.

If you want a “powerful statement” to take away from this roundtable, it might be this: the talent gap isn’t coming. It’s already here. The next generation is willing to step up, but they’re not going to beg to be treated well.

We can keep blaming young workers. Or we can build workplaces that make them want to stay. Surveying has adapted to every major technology shift it has faced. It can adapt to this one too. But only if leaders decide it matters!